Curse

Pericles · Jun 02, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Why do people consider strength as a terrible primary attribute?
Most warriors run about 10 strength so thats 10% armor penetration on ALL your attacks. I find that very nice for damaging purposes. I would like to hear people's opinions about strength because i don't get why people almost 'hate'
this attribute. Also please don't turn this into a Tactics-Strength thread.

Thx in advance

RotteN · Jun 02, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pericles

Most warriors run about 10 strength so thats 10% armor penetration on ALL your attacks.

that's exactly where you go wrong, it's not an ALL attacks, it's solely on your "skill-attacks" (attacks in which you use a skill, like for example, when using executioner's strike).

It's a worthless attribute because it does relatively nothing once you decide to spec higher in it. 8 or 9 strength (depending on weather or not you use a rune) is enough to get desired functionality out of skills like sprint, rush, flail, ...

speccing more will not give you much, apart from a few extra % AP on "skill-attacks", which totally not warrants the waste of attribute points.

fenix · Jun 02, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Yeah, it's bad because it ONLY triggers on attack skills. So your regular hits don't get affected by Strength, which is why it's pretty bad. It DOES stack with Sundering, which is nice for big crits, but it's only when you do skills.

LightningHell · Jun 02, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

What makes it even worse than it sounds is that attack skill bonus damage is already armor ignoring, leaving the armor penetration to the base damage.

LifeInfusion · Jun 02, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Only bother if using strength skills. P.S. it sucks for the same reason 10/10 sundering did.

A Leprechaun · Jun 02, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I invest quite a few points in, but just because I use the skills and have nothing else to put them in, the effect of stregth is lame with a capital L.

~A Leprechaun~

Isil`Zha · Jun 02, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Oh man, I haven't played a Warrior in ages, I had always thought strength put sundering on all attacks, not just attack skills, which is why I wondered why people thought it was so bad... now I see why and fully agree that strength sucks as a primary attribute.

Most primary attributes have to do with saving energy, maybe strength should do something to help with adrenaline or something... and raise the cost of all warrior adrenal skills - actually giving strength a use.

qvtkc · Jun 02, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Most primary attributes have to do with saving energy, maybe strength should do something to help with adrenaline or something... and raise the cost of all warrior adrenal skills - actually giving strength a use.

Making Strength furious instead of sundering would be great - that is, instead of armor penetration on attack skills, make it something like this:

For each point of strength you gain 1% chance of gaining double adrenaline on hit.

Stacking with furious weapon mods, of course.

Saphatorael · Jun 02, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Only bother if using strength skills. P.S. it sucks for the same reason 10/10 sundering did.

Same for 20/20... It's still vastly inferior to Vampiric (and people seem to be too lazy to use 2 weapon sets and swap every now and then)..

The only reason I use Strength nowadays, is to get a decent duration out of Rush (when playing Axe Shock Warrior), but mainly Enraging Charge. Otherwise.
Either that, or I'm running some weird build that doesn't need points in Tactics, nor in any other attribute line.

Isil`Zha · Jun 03, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Making Strength furious instead of sundering would be great - that is, instead of armor penetration on attack skills, make it something like this:

For each point of strength you gain 1% chance of gaining double adrenaline on hit.

Stacking with furious weapon mods, of course.

Actually, i was thinking more along these lines:

One strike of adrenaline is actually 25 points of it. Maybe every other rank in strength gives you an additional 3 points of adrenaline on strike, and an additional 1 point for each % of maximum health lost.

To balance it out, increase the adrenal cost of all Warrior skills so that Warriors aren't building it too fast, and so other professions can't use those skills as well - actually giving strength a good use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

Same for 20/20... It's still vastly inferior to Vampiric

Not really, most of the time Vamp only increases DPS by a whopping 1 damage over 20/20 Sundering, and with some weapons it doesn't increase DPS over 20/20 Sundering at all. And especially at higher weapon masteries, Vampiric is actually inferior in damage dealing to 20/20 Sundering.

With an Axe against a 60 AL target, with 16 weapon mastery, customized and with 15^50 on all attacks has a DPS of 28.47 with 20/20 Sundering. With vampiric... 27.59

Most of the time, yes, Vampiric is better, but only slightly not vastly.

I posted a Damage Calculator in the community tools forum if you want to make several comparisons.

B E A S T · Jun 04, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Strength is the worst primary attribute in the game...its almost as bad as a 20/20 sundering mod

I agree that strength should be furious, that would make it worth clicking up on the attribute points.

IMO strength skills are vastly supperior to tactics skills, but strength's benefit just blows.

LifeInfusion · Jun 04, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Not really, most of the time Vamp only increases DPS by a whopping 1 damage over 20/20 Sundering, and with some weapons it doesn't increase DPS over 20/20 Sundering at all. And especially at higher weapon masteries, Vampiric is actually inferior in damage dealing to 20/20 Sundering.

With an Axe against a 60 AL target, with 16 weapon mastery, customized and with 15^50 on all attacks has a DPS of 28.47 with 20/20 Sundering. With vampiric... 27.59

Most of the time, yes, Vampiric is better, but only slightly not vastly.

I posted a Damage Calculator in the community tools forum if you want to make several comparisons.

Vampiric is better vastly, not slightly. Most protection monks and Restoration Rits run damage mitigation such as Reversal of Fortune or Vengeful weapon. Life steal cuts through them. It ignores them, hitting when you otherwise wouldn't. Sundering just changes the damage of the attack.
In addition, Vampiric packets your damage, meaning things like "Reversal of Damage" that is so loved by Corsair Monks only reverse one part of the damage. It essentially is like Ignite Arrows with no AoE.

PvE wise, Vampiric is better 90% of the time, since you won't be doing insane damage even if you had 25% armor penetration 100% of the time considering the mobs are higher level than you (such as in Hard mode) and have higher armor and INNATE damage mitigation than they would have in PvP. Case in point is the air elementalist on high armor targets in PvE. The reduction is so much that it ends up being pointless if it is a 1 in 5 chance to happen like Sundering. You know when you hit for like 10 max damage with Wild Blow with 16 weapon Mastery on warrior bosses that it ends up being beneficial to carry Vampiric.

That is why it is only worth it to run Sundering if you are going to be afking and die to 1 pip of degen or if you aren't going to be hitting period.

Mesmer in Need · Jun 04, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

I think strength should give +1% attack speed for every 2 ranks or so. If they did that, thumpers and even sins may be out of a job. (btw with thumpers, never let a ranger do a warriors job). And lets not let this drift into a sundering vs vamp thread.

B E A S T · Jun 05, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

And lets not let this drift into a sundering vs vamp thread.

Why should we, when furious puts them all to shame?

ArKaiN · Jun 05, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

I think strength should give +1% attack speed for every 2 ranks or so. If they did that, thumpers and even sins may be out of a job. (btw with thumpers, never let a ranger do a warriors job). And lets not let this drift into a sundering vs vamp thread.

You do understand Rangers can keep up +33%Attack AND Movement speed and spam hammer attacks all they want almost never running out of energy, right? I'm confused as how that's comparable to a warrior thumper(other than you know, some extra armor)

Solus Spartan · Jun 06, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Make it 1 str = 1 vamparic, that would make it nicely overpowered and interesting

B E A S T · Jun 06, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Make it 1 str = 1 vamparic, that would make it nicely overpowered and interesting

That would be interesting...but the only way to balance it would be every three levels of strength you would get -1 degen. 15 stength, -5 degen

This would also render many strength builds useless.

LifeInfusion · Jun 06, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by B E A S T

Why should we, when furious puts them all to shame?

On Dragon slash + adrenaline based warriors (most warriors) yes. On energy based warriors, Zealous > all.

B E A S T · Jun 06, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

On Dragon slash + adrenaline based warriors (most warriors) yes. On energy based warriors, Zealous > all.

Warriors have a low amount of energy for a reason. Zealous = Worst Mod

EDIT

And if you must have energy, use Warriors Endurance...or go play an ele!

LifeInfusion · Jun 06, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by B E A S T

Warriors have a low amount of energy for a reason. Zealous = Worst Mod

EDIT

And if you must have energy, use Warriors Endurance...or go play an ele!

>_>

Shield's up? steady stancers? KD/AS (sucks now)? IWAY? All the strength skills...